dialogue around written work
Responses to week 5 questionnaire
Digestion of responses by Faculty seminar
Responses to end of semester questionnaire
Responses to survey on working
under the revise and resubmit system (week 5)
October 1999
Student 1
1. Revise and resubmit may? cause people to get too obsessed about
recreating something to hand back in and not naturally continue into the other
phases.
2. It has to be done within a short time span or I feel it is useless.
3. Do you comment with our audience in mind?
4. Are you looking at your comments to us in regard to our unique
interests/achievements?
5. I think your comments are helpful- but sometimes you have a tendency to ask
a lot of questions in your comments which could make our thoughts
broaden to a point of being overwhelmed.
Student 2
1. I find the reflective comments helpful for clarifying my
thoughts and writing.
2. I find the act of rewriting is often just going through the motions in that
the suggestions and comments are helpful for future assignments and progress,
but not so important as a piece of writing.
3. Do you, Peter, when commenting, imagine yourself as a window to a larger
audience, or do you respond as an individual only and how the work strikes
you?
4. How do you distinguish between a difference in taste and/or opinion and a
thinking and/or writing deficiency?
Student 3
1. The revise/resubmit process is a frustrating concept, because
it is so different from my previous experiences with writing.
2. In spite of my frustration with the idea, I do see the value in the r/r
system.
3. How do I accomplish it all? All of the required work in addition to r/r?
This is a fear, not a complaint.
4. I'm not accustomed to trusting someone else with my work- it makes me
somewhat anxious.
Student 4
1. Will the revise and resubmit system help me to continuously
redefine and refine my thesis?
2. How can I make the revise and resubmit system work best for me?
3. Will the prescribed times of particular assignments match or inhibit my own
timeframe? I'm sometimes unsure whether I'm doing more work to meet assignment
deadlines that may not coincide with the needs of my project at a certain
point. Who do you please?
4. Do you lose control over your work through the revise and resubmit system?
Are you sharing the control/power with your professor?
5. How will I evaluate the worth of the system for myself? For my work as a
teacher?
6. Since I have an academic interest in the writing process, I expect to learn
more about the importance of effective feedback during the course of this
semester.
Student 5
1. After having gone through this process last semester, I feel
more comfortable this semester. Previously "revise and resubmit" had a feel of
rejection, but I now realize this is not the case.
2. Revise and resubmit pushes me to do my best work. Instead of quickly
throwing something together for the professor, I am now trying to produce
something of meaning for me. Without such a process I'm not sure I
could overcome the "I'll just do what needs to get done" attitude.
3. The procedure takes some of the pressure off. I know if it's not quite
right, not only will I have a second chance, but I'll also have guidelines and
suggestions. It's no longer a one-shot deal.
4. I have found, however, that sometimes it is too easy to stray from an
original path based on feedback and follow Peter's idea in place of my own.
Student 6
1. I have no reservations about working under the system, but am concerned
about my own lack of time in a busy life schedule. I have never fallen back
upon this fact as an excuse for producing shoddy or substandard work. In face,
I have thrived on "pressure cooker" situations (as described in Elbow) to
produce some good written pieces for classes over the years. However, I am
determined to work diligently and authentically through the revise and resubmit
system, so that I may see a greater clarity and passion in my written work.
2. I have tried to maintain focus in my research, while at the same time
leaving myself open for insights and new directional patterns to open up in my
study. But deep in the pit of my stomach, I have a persistent unease caused by
my fear that I will diverge from my topic, and be left with my thoughts
inextricably woven within an intellectual morass.
3. I am excited about reading some of my written work to others in class.
Usually, we students turn in papers to the professor and receive a letter grade
and a small paragraph of comment. Face-to-face encounters with another human
being, actively listening to my thoughts and ideas read aloud, will let me know
instantly (if the listener is honest) whether I am communicating exactly what I
intended at the moment each idea traveled through the ether of my mind and on
through pen onto paper.
4. Under this system, I no longer have to feel that I am wasting time taking
the time to let ideas and thought fragments gestate. It is essential to do
this thought planning in order to make my writing clear and more concise at the
time of revision.
5. I am determined to test my mettle with this research project; in order to
approach my research and writing with a professional resolve (rather than a
student's trepidation and caution), I will revise and resubmit my work until it
meets professional standards- i.e. when it has acquired all of the qualities
of intellectual excellence required for publication in a reputable journal.
6. Through combination of life circumstances, habit, and disposition, I tend
to be somewhat of a loner. I am by no means a misogynist and/or hermit- I love
community and sharing my thoughts and feelings with others. I crave human
companionship and contact; but I am very reserved and shy around people I have
not known long, or do not know intimately. CCT students and faculty are, for
the most part, warm and open people. I feel very comfortable in CCT 698, and
truly believe that everyone in the class will make him/herself available for
counsel, critique, sharing, etc. As Peter mentions in the course packet, I
have found the mid-class break affords golden opportunity for networking and
support amongst individuals.
Student 7
1. My primary concern defining my thesis statement concretely so I can start doing some quality writing. ³It takes writing, thinking, and research together.²
2. Your comments are very specific. I have never been ³trained² to write with the ³audience in mind². I need to write with simplicity and engagement. I 100% agree with your premise of ³produce a product and receive a grade.² This is clearly not the purpose of this course.
3. As the semester progresses, I would like to see margin comments written so I know what to fix, delete or modify. As a suggestion, I can send to you via Email ³red text² to signify up to the minute revisions so you donıt have to read what is acceptable to both of us.
4. I would like more help with ³spoken dialogue² techniques in writing my paper so I can continue to engage them and make it as impactful as possible.
5. Phase of research and engagement: I have to keep going back to the ³overall vision² where I am going with this ³Thesis Statement².
Outling and mapping provides a visualize conceptualization. I agree with Rob Drakeıs comments on how he visualizes how the project will be written, presented, how the reader will receive the writer. Peter Elbowıs view of writing is the two skill sets-creating using words and ideas out of yourself, and criticize, the ability to ³see the best use of words to make the perfect flow of ideas. To analyze, synthesize and put your own original content into your writing is how I am approaching this course. Concept mapping is vital to outlining my project.
Student 8
1. My style of learning the concrete things do this by...The revere system forces me to do better. Not let go of something revisit for improvement and satisfaction.
2. I react to criticism. The information I get from you is taken in ³the veins² of how I write.
3. I have some hurdles to get over with my writing. I need to keep in mind. It might take more than one rewrite. I have become much more process oriented in my work rather than grade oriented.
3. In my freewriting, I commented on the format of your page. Perhaps a rubric for the comments or submits and resubmits might be helpful. Despite my insecurities with writing, I need to affirm as well as deal with constructive criticism.
5. Adapting to a new style is risk taking and involves trust. It was interesting to me how I was reluctant to pass on my trust. I had trust in what you tried and spoke, but subconsciously I was doubting myself.
Student 9
1. Intellectual property: I acknowledge that several people are working on hands on curriculum and other related projects and donıt necessarily want to inspire them in my direction as I feel my ideas are original and feel funny when another person says after I share my ideas with them that, ³yeah-I was thinking the same thing.²
2. Weak Writing skills: I feel that English is essentially a foreign language and that intimidates me to write but at the same time I love to get the feedback and clarification that you provide and so help me write better. Just have to overcome the intimidation first!
3. Perhaps the biggest problem I have is that I am the most self-critical person in the world! I never have enough done or the ³right² stuff done to bother handing anything in. Itıs a cover-up of what I feel are personal weaknesses but you already know them when you donıt get anything from me anyway!
4. I feel that I can definitely benefit from this system. I can see and appreciate the benefits I would derive from it and only need to overcome some inhibiting obstacles to make it work for me.
5. Do you want, or would you like also to see my progress with the model? So far I have only showed you my writing about the model and even that only theoretically. If you judge this to be also part of my school work then I will, but somehow in my mind I keep thinking only written words are for school, and therefore havenıt shown you anything of my model plans. Let me know.
Student 10
1. The idea of revise and re-submit sounds attractive to me because I have worked with that system before. The focus then was for me to learn and become a great writer. Although you and I have yet to have a lot of contact, my fear is that this focus is different. I am buried. I am trying to keep my speaking business going, launch my PR campaign, launch my coaching business, serve my coaching clients, drive my mom and dad around to doctors for the many tests she needs before surgery, stay up to date with my conflict class, complete my coaching certification all the while taking care of husband, house and two teenagers. I wonder how I will feel if I have to re-submit many times.
2. When I clear my head and simply focus on the writing, I am comforted by the system. I feel free to simply get it down, knowing that you and others will help.
3. I am wondering how this system could be applied to other disciplines like math or art. I wonder if the freedom to fail would encourage higher quality.
4. I am amazed at how well this system currently works at the Coaches Training Institute. As trainees we were encouraged to wear badges that say "failure." These badges reminded us to ask for "permission to fail?" before we began role-play coaching the other trainees. We thrived as coaches knowing we were free to learn and make mistakes.
5. In my conflict resolution class's work-group we are also encouraged to try on new roles for fun. In order to support this system, we aren't graded for our successful efforts, but simply our efforts alone.
After reading the concerns, questions, and comments of
seven 698 students about working under the revise and resubmit system, the CIT
faculty seminar brainstormed about what might characterize an improved system/
experience for students (see below). They then clustered the suggestions under
five headings:
ACKNOWLEDGE AFFECT NEGOTIATE POWER/STANDARDS
BE HERE NOW DEVELOP AUTONOMY
HORIZONTAL COMMUNITY
The challenge is to translate those directions into specific actions, but the
first step is to acknowledge what has emerged to date. Below is the full set
of suggestions, albeit telegraphic and open to interpretation. Thanks to the
CIT seminar for your input. Additional thoughts by faculty and 698 students
welcome. Students' concerns, questions, and comments will follow when I have
time to type them up.
DEVELOP AUTONOMY
I never...
ownership not jeopardized
balance of assignments/revisions and working on larger project
self-assessment
peter owns his position (not left implicit)
unresolved not resolved by P.
everyone is playful re: control
revising helps me rethink, clarify my ideas
developing autonomy
This is mine!
power vacuum (partial)
NEGOTIATE POWER/STANDARDS
on-going evaluation of system
What are you doing?
don't overpower
probing questions
explicit criteria
sharing control over work with professor (student & teacher stating goals;
student responding to responses)
I want you to...
students give peter reading guidance
constructive forces at work
variety of responses to system acknowledged
P's opinion vs. wider audience (address by naming ways of responding)
ACKNOWLEDGE AFFECT
writer's personal fears + concerns (address by eliciting, setting to the
side)
desire wins over fears
winning trust
lots of listening in conferences
ideas create trust
BE HERE NOW
peace rather than pressure
time is irrelevant
Use this process!
going off track is valuable
making time
complexity arises out of simplicity
HORIZONTAL COMMUNITY
veterans reassure novices
connections with others: built in, encouraged
sharing works
opportunity to vent
revise and
resubmit questionnaire, part 2
student 1
1. allow others to determine whether the piece of work should be
revised, and if so, in what capacity?
2. maybe give it a limit- only revising a certain number of times (2 or 3?)
3. allow for time to really think about the audience of the work--is the paper
being viewed that way?
4. allow peer discussions centering around how each person is making use of
the system.
5. keep within the time limit, it is good to give a short period of time,
after it becomes mundane.
Student 2
1. Students should be made aware of the possibility for asking for a
specific kind of feedback. Although I didn't use it much, I found the
possibility empowering/ reassuring.
2. Matching students with similar professional backgrounds and areas of
interest worked well for discussions, it might also work well for written
comments on work.
3. I found the system to forward my thinking at critical times and areas. It
was helpful to me.
Student 4
1. Working under the revise and resubmit system this semester got easier as
time went on. This seems to be the function of several things--getting more
comfortable with your professor and establishing trust; establishing
relationships with your peers; trusting your own voice; writing more and
observing your own improvements; paying attention to how various new tools of
writing are helping with writing process.
2. As I worked under the revised and resubmit process, I became more convinced
of its worth when I actually made significant changes in my work as a result of
the process. As the process began to work for me, I became more confident and
trusted the process to work again for me. I became patient with myself and the
process as I anticipated further rewards.
3. Perhaps having a "buddy" from close to the beginning of the cause would be
helpful. I'm not sure how the choice of buddy would be made, there are several
people in our class that I think I would have liked to share my writing with on
a consistent basis. Revise and resubmit with that special person in addition to
the professor might be helpful to tell him/her; if your friend is confusing,
it's easier to address.
4. Sometimes it's good to rework something for resubmission and other times,
it just may not be a good use of one's time. This goes back to the assignment
matching the particular needs of particular people at particular times. I am
sure how to solve this one since the assignments certainly opened up new ways
to do the writing so they were worthwhile. Maybe the timing or requirements
could be somehow be more flexible.
Student 5
1. My reaction to the comments and the rewrites varied from assignment
to assignment. The assignments I felt helped me in my project --> comments
were reflected upon, eagerly accepted, and the revision was also viewed as an
investment. The assignments I felt were distracting from my project --> the
comments received a less than enthusiastic response and I found the re-write to
be a labor. Is there some way the student can input as when to end the
process? Can the student have the right to say, "revising will be be
beneficial for me, the assignment is complete?"
2. The system does change my motivation--> I am no longer crossing items
off a check list of mindlessly putting down something (anything) on paper. I
now realize I am writing for me not the professor.
3. there are times when I find the comments to be conflicting and I wonder if
I am understanding them correctly. I am often confused at these times, or when
Peter's comments seem to diverge from my original intention.
4. Often/usually, however, comments help to clarify and probe me to
investigate further the pros outweigh the cons!
Student 6
1. I welcomed this system because in the past I have written 20 page
papers over the course of 2 days to fulfill obligations in my undergraduate
years, esp. for Psych. courses, that were pure shit. I received good grades
for the paper I had written, but did not feel good about it, justifying my
results by falling back on the excuse of my 40-hour job and full course load.
The revise and resubmit system challenged me to have my skills and trim the
fat; I am still not there yet- my writing tends to be too dense, but I will
plod on.
2. I wish that the "Briefing" exercise had been offered earlier in the course
syllabus. I had two little time to deviate from the project at the point it
came up for the first draft. A possible reason for this feeling may have been
that I was having difficulty finding "dialogue in education" materials, and was
afraid to split my research time an the "Briefing" exercise. I had intended to
write about using "role play' to stir the creativity juices.
3. Sharing each other's work earlier in the semester as we did in the third to
last class when we critiqued the first draft of the research paper would be a
help in giving encouragement all around.
4. I did not have access to e-mail, and felt that I missed out on a lot of
supportive exchange that others in class appeared to be sharing.
5. More time in the group exercises would be appreciated for future course
takers; try to arrange for everyone in the class to have a face-to-face
discussion at least one time in class
6. I never had a chance to get to know the people who were sitting besides me
until the unstructured second to last class, but I appreciate the interchange
with my base group members, Shelly and Angie.
Student 7
1. More peer reviews in the last three classes. I din't have an
opportunity to share my work with other students. This class was a springboard
of help to focus my paper.
2. The comments were helpful but, from a micro standpoint. I could not focus
on what has really needed to clarify of rewrite on some issues. Area of
improvement: give some specific specific examples. You did this in the
beginning of the semester.
3. Make comments on written work--you did this on the concept maps and thesis
question. I would like to see more of this on actual written work.
4. After several submissions such as the briefing I did the assignment 4X and
could not improve or incrementally improve after each iteration.
5. Course packet and students' previous assignments were not representative
examples in some cases. Please include step by step instructions and a detailed
explanation of each assignment: 1. purpose; 2. goal; 3. reason; 4. benefits
(Reorganize course packet.)
Student 8
1. I like the buddy system. If we have a partner early in the semester
we can bounce ideas off another person for clarifying / additional changes
needed.
2. Love the email contact rather than always waiting for feedback--Your e-mail
messages are very helpful
3. Would a disc be helpful for you to early review our works in progress?
4. The R & R system has become a valuable tool for me to improve written
material
5. Multiple copies of finished product give validation of progress and
positive reinforcement from peers, as well as the chance to share ideas.
Student 9
1. It works--but you need to follow it as closely as possible and make
the most of the assignments in order to understand their significance to
research process.
2. One way I was wondering about--Maybe being able to get readers during the
course for those interested in writing earlier or those who want to share
earlier because they feel more ahead in their arguments or have already
completed similar work (this does not apply to me now as I learned what I
missed by doing it the hard way)
3. I wished I did my arguments assignment 1st Talking and
discussing the appropriate language to use would have been helpful for me at
the point I started the class (not everyone would be at the same place whey
they start). That would have saved me a lot of frustrations but then
again, I'm the only one to blame for that as I did not do that when we were
supposed to either!
Student 10
1. I behave differently than I think. I believe that this system is
built in trust & I believe that the learning comes from the rewriting. I
act as though I don't believe this & still fear a lousy grade &
not getting it perfectly right. This desire for perfection has immobilized
me.
2. I would have liked to have read more of each other's work or read some
aloud. The learning would have come from hearing how others edit in their
minds.
3. Although it would have been more work I would have liked to work each week
maybe by phone with a contact buddy.
4. I would have liked to have practice editing work from other people,not
class mates.
5. I would have liked the research to appear less scary to me. The course
felt huge instead of manageable. Although there were attempts (class visits[?]
by other students) to make it appear workable, it still felt too big to
finish.
Student 11
1. The system is useful to help the writer complete her/his best
work.
2. It causes stress, but it worth the stress.
3. Improving revise/resubmit--I did not have lots to resubmit. Most comments
I got were useful to improve my work, but did not require major changes. There
were some involved in anticipating completing one assignment and revising
another one for the same class. How to improve? Not sure.
4. Time spent sharing with peers was valuable. I would like to see more
sharing along the way.
5. It students are going to do more sharing, I would like more discussion
about sharing & reading/editing someone's work
6. Revise and resubmit and grading--Not your responsibility, but if you
provide a chart were students could check off what they're handed in and what
has been OK/RNR, that might help people not feel so stressed--Maybe?
Student 12
Preface: I have had such angst this term not submitting things in a
timely fashion. Many assignments the paper ended in being verbal. For the one
that were written:
1. It is an intense process. The active engagement to work and that it can
always be "tightened" or revised, pushes me to new places.
2. The comments were helpful. Despite feeling pushed, the sharing of work
with peers and having them help assess again assisted the process. The
active nature and continued process pushed me.
3. I woud make sure to model assignments. Sometimes the openness I felt
leaving class without a firm understanding. I would read the examples in the
syllabus and hope that I was doing assignments correctly.
4. I trust my process of writing more because of the processes we do in the
class--freewriting, sharing
5. More when I complete all the work.
Many of the things I wrote about clouded my view about the system because it
took so much time to find a thesis.